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OK, now that we appear to have a clear nominee who because of Democratic numbers is almost assured of beating any Republican nominee, can we begin to talk about substance instead of chanting "change"?


Obama has given me no reason to jump for joy, for in spite of his patriotic speeches, he does not seem prepared to make the changes that are actually necessary in the way our country does business. He recently spoke to the American Israel Public Affairs Council (Aipac) and his words have inflamed Arab anger and distrust of America. He pledged that Jerusalem must remain united and remain the capital of Israel. I wonder if he knows that the Israelis are negotiating with Syria about perhaps handing over Golan Heights to buy peace. I wonder if he knows how powerful the Palestinian separatist movement has become. Has Obama been too busy campaigning? Does he understand what is going on over there? Does he know the history? That is all debatable. He clearly knows American black/white history well. Whatever the case, he has added insult to the injury of the Arabs in the region. This in addition to the fact that his choice of Christianity over Islam, given his family history, is a crime punishable by death under Islam, means that Obama will not have an easy road trying to negotiate peace in the Middle East. He says that he will end the war in Iraq. I don't believe him. I don't think that he can. All he can do is call a retreat.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/93FE247B-452D-4022-8374-088D8704C1DE.htm

It seems to me that Obama is wrong, Israel is best broken up, and the Jews who believe they have a "right" to that land be damned. I recently met a Palestinian man whose family moved to Jordan in the 1960's. He was raised in Jerusalem. He said that it would all be just fine if Israel would stop combining religion with government, and begin to have a truly pluralistic society in which one's religious practices were not a reason for any kind of discrimination. Historically Israel has systematically discriminated against Muslims, and it is no wonder that many Arabs dispute Israel's "right" to exist. If they have a "right" to a state of their own, why don't the Palestinians? Barring Israel's not-forthcoming decision to be truly democratic and pluralistic, East Jerusalem and the West Bank are seen as being occupied by the Jews, and would be part of a fairly negotiated future Palestinian state.

Comments

( 9 comments — Leave a comment )
neptunia67
Jun. 5th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC)
I think any American president that suggested that Israel be broken up and the Jews be damned would be damned here in his/her own country. Christians believe the Jews are the chosen people (according to what the bible says) and that Israel is the chosen land.
liveonearth
Jun. 6th, 2008 12:52 am (UTC)
The situation is damning, no doubt, on all sides. And there is a way to approach the situation such that the true NEEDS of all invested parties can be met, even while asserted "rights" fall by the wayside. "Damned" is a very strong word on my part, and no politician would use such a word. Luckily, I'm not in the position of having to be PC. I do hope, however, that great negotiators such as Jimmy Carter continue to get out into the world and help people find a middle ground based on meeting needs instead of bowing down to "rights" which are illusory and in this case patently unfair.
liveonearth
Jun. 6th, 2008 02:38 pm (UTC)
I've been thinking about what you said about Jews being the chosen people and Israel (or is it Jerusalem?) being the chosen land. I find myself lacking in any real grasp of the matter. Can you tell me more about what Christians believe about this, from your own experience? What would your mother say?
neptunia67
Jun. 6th, 2008 03:06 pm (UTC)
Mom would say...
Mom would say that things are happening exactly as they should be, according to the prophecies in the bible. She would tell you that Israel is God's chosen land, and the Jews his chosen people. That is why they have been persecuted throughout history, because Satan is trying to wipe them from the earth. She would tell you that there is no way Israel will ever be broken up, because of these reasons, and that it is Palestine and the rest of the world who will pay for the way they treat the Jews.

I don't really have a grasp of it either, because I don't believe the prophecies... so I tend to turn the conversation in another direction when it comes up.

I am nearly positive that my Mom would be happy to talk with you about all of this over the phone sometime, if you were interested in learning/hearing more.

There are a lot of articles if you google "israel chosen land"
liveonearth
Jun. 6th, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC)
Re: Mom would say...
It sounds as if the whole "chosen" thing is straight from the bible. I don't have time or desire to research it at this moment, but if you run across any other possible origins for the idea, I'm interested. Your mom, as far as I can tell, takes her understanding from the bible and from her church which interprets it for her? As you can guess, I have no interest in hearing your mom out about it right now. Maybe sometime when I have nothing else to keep me busy. =-]
neptunia67
Jun. 6th, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Mom would say...
Yes, it is definitely directly from the bible, and how the bible is interpreted by Christians. I don't think there is any other source for the information or any other religion besides Christianity that believes it. Heck, I don't even know if the Jews interpret it the same way.
neptunia67
Jun. 6th, 2008 03:12 pm (UTC)
This one looks interesting

Re: Jimmy Carter. Amen, sister. I hope I'm as wise as Jimmy one day.

Conflict is strange. People get completely out of the zone of what is reasonable. Most conflict is rooted in history, principles, values and beliefs. And nobody wants to budge an inch when it comes to those things. Fascinating.

I'm going to a training in a couple of weeks, three days on negotiation skills. Should be good!
owl_clan
Jun. 6th, 2008 03:25 pm (UTC)

You are 100% correct. On every point.
liveonearth
Jun. 7th, 2008 07:46 pm (UTC)
It's good to know I'm not the only one suffering from this particular delusion.
( 9 comments — Leave a comment )

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