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http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777749_3

I'm glad they're looking at this. Turns out that there are more adverse events with homeopathy than there are with placebo, so there must be something in there. The remedy most common implicated is Rhus Tox, which is a dilution of poison ivy.

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( 8 comments — Leave a comment )
madman101
Mar. 16th, 2013 02:36 am (UTC)
Having only read your text, I do say that this is indeed interesting. In the past, I was rather cavalier towards the possibility of even the smallest degree of efficacy of homeopathy. But I have become far more open-minded.

Of course, the skeptic would object that perhaps a stats fluke, chance, or added ingredients may be source of what seems like some influence from homeopathics.

But, the madness of my own poison ivy infections in the past, which were apparently contracted via discrete angel farts from many million of light-years away, make me tend to accept this as probable support to the likelihood of influence, and so possible efficacy, (which would still be dependent on variability of the subject, and so on).
liveonearth
Mar. 16th, 2013 03:56 am (UTC)
Well frankly, I don't buy that homeopathy has any efficacy beyond placebo, however placebo is quite powerful. I know, also, that the reason homeopathy exists is that the medicines in use 200 years ago were highly toxic, and dilutions of them allowed people to get better instead of dying of the treatment. Still today the homeopathic remedies most in use are dilutions of highly toxic substances. A little poison ivy is the least of it, compared to gonorrheal pus (medorrhinum) and all the heavy metals (ledum, arsenicum, etc).
madman101
Mar. 16th, 2013 04:26 am (UTC)
well - just what i need, more levity back in my mix - but i deserve it...

i am still open to homeopathy for other reasons. however, the fact that such a tiny dilution of poison ivy may get through does suggest that the fine dilutions of homeo meds may, even if not having health influences (measurable), indeed reach the body

yes, the placebo effect can be very strong - sometimes ridiculously strong, i am sure you are very correct that placebo accounts for much in homeopathic meds. the few times i ever bought homeopathic meds, i simply bought off-the-cuff, when i had the spare change, and downed them without a thought, looking for nothing. i never noticed any change. so, i have always been highly aware of the placebo influence. studied it in psych major as well.

i take trace minerals, and these mixes can contain trace amounts of toxic metals, etc. mine possibly contains fluoride and arsenic, but in their more bio/organic forms. i definitely believe in the relevance of (adding) these to one's diet. soils, new and ancient, become exhausted - huhhhh... well, i ponder if the inclusion of "through-the-body" mercury in vaccines may have been a vestigal carry-over from those days of toxic/homeopathics, eh. at least symbolically. well, i recently heard something about all mercury being removed from vaccines - somewhere, somehow - idk... adjuvant-rich vaccines is one form of "homeopathy" i could do without.
liveonearth
Mar. 17th, 2013 04:32 pm (UTC)
Thimerosal (the mercury containing component) has been removed from pediatric vaccines. Adult vaccines still have it.

There is no doubt that some toxic substances have the potential to be therapeutic at very low doses.

There is also no doubt that the placebo effect works in conjunction with conventional medications as well. I find it somewhat humorous that docs deny that they are using it, when in fact it is unavailable... with the exception of certain individuals, like myself, and probably you, who are less "suggestible" due to having too much cognitive material counteracting our instinctive ways. If you'd never studied psychology, the placebo effect would probably work better for you.
madman101
Mar. 17th, 2013 10:40 pm (UTC)
oh forsooth

after all the money i spent on college i end up the worse for it - which is why i suppose picking an apple from the tree of knowledge was such a bad thing - i could never figure that out when i was younger - but now i know

well - re: mercury - in my fog, i do think i recall the pediatric uh... recall - but this latest news is about a global ban - but i have no source for the info, was too ill

the olde towne neighbour, "Village Idiot," played w/ mercury balls as a child, and grew up to have a smallish head - but mercury explains a lot about him - he greatly resembles N-Girl, the most of which I know about is this: she has sickle cell, (and MAYBE schizophrenia), which i have read causes victims to need excessive control - my guess is problems of 02 use, and BBB dysregulation. interesting, yes?
liveonearth
Mar. 18th, 2013 03:26 am (UTC)
What I meant is that the placebo effect is unaviodable.

Why do you think you are worse off from your college education?

I played with mercury balls too. They are very cool. No idea what that does to the BBB.
madman101
Mar. 18th, 2013 03:59 am (UTC)
Everything is placebo effect. When you know this, it can be "avoided".

jk - my college education taught me to minimise positive effects of placebo.

great balls of fire, you must be mad as a hatter.
liveonearth
Mar. 18th, 2013 05:59 pm (UTC)
You have me figured out.
( 8 comments — Leave a comment )

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